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This is the Reading Teachers Lounge where listeners can eavesdrop on professional conversations between elementary reading teachers. We are passionate about literacy and strive to find strategies to reach all learners. Shannon and Mary are neighbors who realized that they were “literacy soul sisters” at a dinner in their Atlanta neighborhood. Once they started chatting about reading they haven’t really stopped. Come join the conversation.

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AD FREE 8.5 The Literacy Block with Lindsay Kememy

Subscriber Episode • December 06, 2025 • Shannon Betts and Mary Saghafi • Season 8 • Episode 5

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Mary and Shannon are joined by Lindsay Kemeny, a returning guest and first-grade teacher who specializes in literacy instruction. Lindsay discusses her latest book, 'Rock Your Literacy Block,' and shares insights into structuring an effective literacy block. During the chat, Lindsay
stresses the importance of routines, transitions, and frequent student responses in her data-driven instruction. Lindsay also opens up about her personal journey, detailing how her son's struggles with dyslexia transformed her teaching methods. The conversation covers practical tips for teaching phonics, spelling, high-frequency words, and integrating science and social studies into a literacy block. Listen to the episode to learn practical tips for how to optimize your reading instruction.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Reintroduction
00:37 Lindsay's Journey and New Books
02:24 Implementing Literacy Block Changes
07:09 Structuring the Literacy Block
13:39 Intervention Strategies and Collaboration
19:57 Phonics and Spelling Integration
26:25 Reflecting on Class Data
26:36 Optimizing Lessons and Routines
28:49 The Importance of Consistent Routines
32:56 Call for Frequent Student Responses
34:58 Focus on Progress, Not Perfection
37:45 Personal Story and Advocacy for Dyslexia
50:25 Concluding Thoughts and Resources

RECOMMENDED RESOURCES RELEVANT TO THE EPISODE:

8.5 ad free The Literacy Block with Lindsay Kemeny

Shannon Betts: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Reading Teachers Lounge. Mary and I are here with a returning guest. We haven't had you since season six, but we're excited to talk with you, talk with Lindsay Kemeny again and to talk about literacy block. Last time we talked about like the best moves that reading teachers can make, and we wanted to welcome you back in to talk about the literacy block today.

So for those of. Maybe who didn't hear the episode back in season six. If you'll introduce yourself, reintroduce yourself to listeners. Yeah. And also tell us what you've been doing in the last two years.

Lindsay Kemeny: Alright, sure. So, yeah, my name's Lindsay Kemeny. I am a school teacher, so I am teaching first grade right now.

I also have taught kindergarten and I've taught second grade, and I've taught intervention K to six. And people always a ask me like, what's your favorite? And it's, I'm usually like, whatever I'm teaching right now, it's like usually what I say. But I do really love [00:01:00] first grade. Like it brings in like what I love about kindergarten and what I love about second grade, I feel like.

So it's kind of fun. And I'm also an author, so last time I was here I was talking about my first book, seven Mighty Moves. And we talked about, you know, the seven changes I made in my classroom after learning about, you know, the evidence base behind literacy instruction. And I probably, I can't remember on that episode I probably talked about how that all came to be when my own son was diagnosed with dyslexia.

And since then, was it two years ago, Shannon, you said? So since then I've written two more books. So I have seven Mighty Moves reading resources, which is like a resource companion to the other book. And then this summer just published Rock Your Literacy Block. That's my newest book. I love it.

It's I just think it has, it's like. Special. Like, it's just, it's really fun 'cause I just walk, I just [00:02:00] walk you through my block and tell you what I do. And that's what we're gonna be talking a little bit about today. So oh, and I should mention, I'm also a, a podcast co-host of a podcast literacy talks.

So it's an honor to be here.

Mary Saghafi: We're so excited to have you as well. Thank you. And I think that, you know, cozying up in the reading teacher's lunch and just talking about what we're so enthusiastic about. But I think also talking about like the logistical, you know, kind of the nitty gritty stuff that teachers get a little bit overwhelmed with is, you know, probably the reason that you wrote this book, because it's all well and good to learn the new science, not new, but learn science of reading and figure out, oh, these are the things I need to implement. But then the actual implementation is the challenging piece. So I guess my initial question to you really is what was the first big thing that you made a change to?

How did you really initiate the moves in your classroom for your [00:03:00] own literacy block?

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah, and like what you're saying, like it's totally the how, right? We learn all about these. You know, things with the signs of reading and these different things, and you hear from a researcher or another expert, but it's like a whole nother thing to take all those things and put them in the classroom.

Right? And, and like how does everything come together? So whereas like my first book was really like, here are the seven biggest changes I had to make because I was like heavily trained in another approach, right? So I had to make these changes. And then this book is more like. How do all those things come together in the course of a day and what does that look like?

And Mary, what you were saying kind of reminded me like I was giving a webinar, you know, when, when seven Mighty Moves first came out and someone was like. Oh, well, I was talking about phonics and I was saying, well, it's not just the lesson steps, but you also have to think about [00:04:00] what's happening between the lesson steps and the transitions, like where your students are and like where they're going next.

And someone in the, like in the comments wrote, you should write a book on that. And so, and that made me kinda like. Huh. Okay. That's, that's interesting. You know, and then the other thing that happened is my principal moved me from second grade to first grade, and I was really kind of angry at first, but I was also, I was like.

Nervous. I'm like, first graders, like, I don't even, what does that look like? And, and what does their block look like? So what I did is I reached out to different teachers that I admired in my school district and I called them up and I was like, Hey, can I come to your classroom after school and you can just walk me through your block?

And so I went to like three different ones and I was. Thinking, why have I never done this before? Like, it was so helpful. I almost wanna do it every year because [00:05:00] even though I didn't structure my block exactly like they did, it was still so helpful for me to see, okay, what's works for them? And, and it just helped me think through how I wanted.

My day in first grade to look. And so that's really like even like what I'm sharing today and what I share in the book. I mean, the idea is not, hey, you have to do it just like me. You know what I mean? I'm gonna share what's working for me and then you know, you are gonna take it and you're gonna make it yours and decide, you know, it's just gonna help, I think, inspire o others.

Good ideas Right. As, as they figure it out. So gosh, now Mary, I'm like, now what did you ask me? Did that kind of answer?

Mary Saghafi: No, no, it's okay. Yeah. You're doing such a great job. Of course. But I, I kind of wanted to know, so when you, after you, you know, saw the other classrooms, what was the first thing that you kind of focused on?

Lindsay Kemeny: I don't know if I could pinpoint a single thing. [00:06:00] I had to figure out, you know, kind of. How much time to spend on everything and what I thought was critical. They might have had other parts that I'm like, Hmm, I'm not gonna include that because I want to include this. Right. And just kind of set up how much time, which it also kind of changes how much time in.

Part, it kind of changes across the year too, because things take longer. Oh yeah. And especially, especially in first grade, like the spring looks very different than right now. Like and I, it is October right now, so we're still like beginning of the year and things take a little longer, so.

Mary Saghafi: Sure. Yeah. Oh, I really like that part about how it's, it doesn't need to look the same every single minute of your block throughout the school year.

'cause you're right, so many things shift and change and the kids grow in, you know, different ways. Some kids may need more time for some things, but other kids are ready to kind of soar a [00:07:00] little bit more independently, especially the growth that happens in first and second grade, I would say.

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah,

Mary Saghafi: both of those age groups.

Awesome.

Lindsay Kemeny: That's really cool. So in the book I share ROCK as an acronym and the R stands for. Reflect on your class data. And I think this is good just to remember as we're talking today, because you would never let like a single person dictate how you schedule your day, right? So even like, oh, well, you know, Lindsay Kemeny said this.

Well, you always have to prioritize your students' needs and consider your own students. So you're looking at your data, you're seeing if it's working. You guys, you know, I, I know you commented on my recent social media post about like 90 minute block is not enough in the lower grades. Well, you could have say, well I do 90, like I do 90 minutes, and hey, I have 90% of my students on track.

Okay, [00:08:00] then it's working, you know? But if you don't, then maybe there's something to consider there, right? So we're just always thinking about our data.

Shannon Betts: Yeah, I wanted to like, I kind of wanted to be like, oh, I can't wait to hear more about this because I already know what you're gonna say, but I wanna ask it anyway.

Like, it doesn't come at the expense of like the, the core subjects like science and social studies. So how do you work those in? 'cause they are part of that two hours, right? If you were gonna do a two hour literacy block.

Lindsay Kemeny: Okay. Well, I like, okay, I disagree actually. I don't think they for my classroom that it's not taking away from that.

Okay. Now we don't do it. We are, we're doing every other day, like science or social studies. So maybe that's what I did in my classroom. That's where you're thinking. But for us it's kind of, you know, it's not like expected every day. Like we still get through the curriculum or the, the standards there.

[00:09:00] So yeah. And I just think, okay, if you're like, oh my gosh, I can't do two hours, well I look at your data. 'cause if you don't have 80 to 95% of the students on track for reading, then what are we even doing? Like teaching students to read is like the foundation we need to teach them to read. And honestly, sometimes I'm like.

What else are they doing through the through the day? Because when I like look at all the minutes I can, I can definitely get in easily at least two hours of the literacy block. So I would say, you know, and it could be where probably where different districts have different. Requirements or they're like, oh, we have to have like 20 minutes of mindfulness or something.

You know what I mean? And that like might be coming in and So, or the

Shannon Betts: intervention time or something like that. Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny: The intervention time and and maybe there's two intervention time, [00:10:00] so maybe there is a literacy one and a math that's kind of, you know, which I think that, like, that is still workable because like, it's

Shannon Betts: still, I guess, part of the literacy block.

I mean, even I, like we had, when I was in my second grade class which was the last homeroom teaching position I had, we had 45 minutes of morning work. And because the buses, you know, there were so many bus cycles, Uhhuh and. I was lucky, I guess, or fortunate that like my lowest readers were in the earliest arrival bus, so I pulled their reading group during morning work before.

Mm-hmm. I mean, as soon as they came in from breakfast or even sometimes I would be like, bring your breakfast to class and we'll do, you can eat it at the kidKemeny table. Like we need to like start, you know, our reading group now. Yes. So I, I guess I could have included, I don't think I had two hours on paper, like during my literacy block.

Time on my schedule, which was like Belle to bell, but it probably was two hours if you take those times. And then [00:11:00] also I would sometimes see my other students, like a dismissal or something, you know, if they were staying in my room waiting for their bus.

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah, so I, I think it definitely takes like some effort to look at the schedule and see like, can I streamline anything?

Is there anything can that can kind of be integrated with something else so that I can get my minutes? And if the district is like, has just all these. I don't know, requirements for you, but you don't have your data. Can you show them, you know, can you show them, Hey, look, I've, I need more time, you know, for literacy.

Like, we're not, I don't to

Shannon Betts: justify those decisions. Yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah. I don't think you'll see the results you, you want with just 90 minutes, you know?

Shannon Betts: So why does that much time needed, like what needs to be included?

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah. So I can tell you my, kind of the core parts of my literacy block, right? Our phonics lesson, that's 30 to 45 minutes, so we have phonics.

Then after [00:12:00] that is the close reading lesson, what I call close reading. This is where there is more of a focus on. Comprehension language comprehension, reading comprehension, vocabulary. Also fluency. Not at this time of the year, first grade, 'cause we're not quite ready for that. And most, you know, the books that we're reading right now are decodables, but towards as we go throughout the year, I'm gonna be, you know, they'll be having harder and harder texts.

And then, let's see. Okay, so I said phonics. Okay. My close reading is 30 minutes right after close reading is my writing and writing is 30 minutes, and that is right after close reading because we write about what we're reading about. And then I have my small groups and centers, and that can be anywhere from 30 to 60 minutes.

And this is where. For, you know, a lot of people where they have intervention, like you guys mentioned, the intervention. [00:13:00] So my students, I do have some that are pulled out for a intervention from a specialist, so they're outta my room for about 30, like it's 25, about 25 to 30 minutes. So I want to have. My centers be longer than that because I want them to meet with me too.

I wanna provide intervention to them in addition to the interventions they're getting. So so I will have like 45 minutes usually as for my centers so I can work with them too. And it's never enough. Like, it's never like even the literacy block, it's like there's never enough time for everything.

Mary Saghafi: Our listeners obviously can't see me, but I was like cheering because I'm so glad that you're prioritizing your lower groups with intervention as well, because. You know, obviously they need that extra practice time and I think that the organization of that is just brilliant and they need to also know that their [00:14:00] intervention teacher and their general education teacher are doing similar things and that they are actually still continuing with those same practice turns, even if it's delivered by a different adult.

Yeah. That's critical, so I love that part too.

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah, and our intervention is a little different this year because our, I guess our district is kind of changing the programs they use in intervention. So right now for the first grade, they just want us to tell the interventionists what to do. And I really actually love it because I got like these plastic envelopes and every day I'm putting in there what I want.

The interventionist to work on and for, you know, a few of my students, like they, I mean, it's just basically reviewing, it's like a double dose of what I did in phonics. So we just did, you know, ng, Ang, Ang, and so I put in a word list, I put it a book, you know, with those. And [00:15:00] I write, you know, what we're doing to have them do.

And it's been so nice for them to get a double dose of exactly. What I'm doing in the classroom. And then I like worked with those interventionists to say like, this is how, like this is how I'm having them blend. This is successive blending. Let me show you how I do it. And I'm like, make sure their fingers are on the words as they're reading.

And so that they're getting just like you said, Mary, where it's like really consistent. So I've really liked it.

Mary Saghafi: I think that is so helpful. And so, you know, with my background, our listeners likely know that I was a special ed teacher and I, so I provided a lot of, you know, heavy instruction, but so much of it was very remedial and it was very disconnected.

And so a lot of the times what I would argue is that that student needed to be in a pullout situation when really, making sure that there's common language between what the general education teacher and any other provider is doing. That's how the students learn to apply. Yeah. A [00:16:00] lot of times if you are not able to kind of intercept a child at that critical stage where they really need intervention.

They get really good at reading facial expressions because they want to, and you know, we've said this for a while they will try to hide behind the fact and they'll do everything to distract that. They are not understanding the concept 'cause they don't wanna stand out. So I like to say they but really, you know, our students who are struggling don't wanna appear that they're struggling and that's how kids kind of fly under the radar.

So. Once again, shining that light back on your data and making sure that you really know your students by their numbers, and also have that personal connection. That's what, that's what good teachers do. So I think that that intervention, dictated by the general education teacher, and I'm sure it's not always dictated depending on the, the teacher's, you know?

Yeah. Expertise and things like that. Like I'm sure an interventionist can help provide some support and structure. But I [00:17:00] think that that extending a, a branch out to another colleague to say, Hey, this is how it's going. This is how I'm using the language in the classroom. These are the strategies.

Help me, you know, continue to teach these strategies that covers you to make sure that everybody is providing appropriate and very systematic construction. So if that's not happening, gotta make it happen in your school.

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah. And if it, like, in, in the past it was just kind of reversed where they did have just this a separate program that they were following for those kids in intervention.

And it was, you know, there's, it's kind of different every year, but I, I was, a lot of times I was frustrated with the communication because I didn't know what they were working on there in there. And then I went to this conference with my school district this summer and they were talking about starting, like, they called it, book bags, which if anyone out there knows me, I have a different like book bag thing I do. But they had just like a folder going [00:18:00] back and forth and from intervention to the regular gen ed teacher and on the folder, it just had like, it would have. Taped on it, a list of the lessons, and then the concepts in the lessons, and then the interventions would just have to put the date, like if they worked on that.

And so then when you get it back in the classroom, you can look and say, oh, oh, they're doing ee. And then inside, you know, they had like a, like a word list and a book, and. I was like, that would, that would totally solve my problem. Because they would come back from intervention and I could see, oh, they're working on ee.

Well, I can do that now in small group with them, you know? So.

Shannon Betts: We did a episode like about that last season called the Reading Team. 'cause it was based on a blog post that I'd seen years ago when I was an intervention teacher that I think maybe our principal had sent it or, or I found it in, sent it to our whole intervention team.

I can't remember the history behind it, but it was basically saying it was by Frankie sson and it was basically [00:19:00] saying like to the students who maybe get pulled out by like two or three different teachers during a week. It just seems like separate instruction to them, and they don't see it as reading is, reading is reading is reading is reading.

They don't see it as the same thing. They see it as almost like different types of reading for different teachers requirements, and it's so important to get on the same page, especially for the most struggling students.

Lindsay Kemeny: Especially for them because, and the different language and if each program has like segments a different way or they do a different marking system or something like, whoa, then think about like the cognitive load for that student where they have to switch gears right in each one.

So yeah, so helpful if we can try to streamline that and have consistency between all the tier.

Shannon Betts: It'd be really neat to see the effectiveness throughout the year for you and your students in this new system. So I'm really glad that y'all have been able to make that change.

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah. Yeah.

Shannon Betts: That's really cool.

So where does spelling fit in? Is it part of your phonics? [00:20:00]

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah, part of my phonics for sure. You know, I am first grade, so I teach those together. And I, I do on Fridays, I do a little show, what, you know that's what I call it, the show, what, you know it's. You know, basically like a spelling a test, but it's not like they know the words.

That I'm, I don't give a, like a list,

Shannon Betts: but it's just applying this skill that y'all work.

Lindsay Kemeny: It's applying it. So it's like we worked on sh and the whole point is not a gotcha. It's who do I need to have practiced this more? You know, like, who needs more help with digraphs or whatever. So, yeah, it's, it's good.

So every day in our phonics, we spell, we're spelling dictation is a huge part of the phonics lesson. And even so my, my district adopted a new program last year and. It didn't have the students write any, like, spell anything until like October. But I was like, I'm doing that from day one. So from the [00:21:00] beginning of the year, you know, I'm like, that's just a routine that we do and it really helps their spelling to, to be practicing every day.

Shannon Betts: I'm trying to ask all the questions that I think our listeners are gonna be asking, like while we're listening to this. So also like where do the high frequency words. Fit in that maybe don't match the spelling pattern, it might, you know, have irregular patterns or maybe, you know, some sort of etymological reason for that spelling or they just uhhuh.

It's a pattern you haven't learned yet. Yeah. Where did those work in, are those part of your phonics two or, yep.

Lindsay Kemeny: Those are part of my phonics lessons. So I will do, so, I do dictation in my phonics lessons and then after dictation, well I'll do like word dictation, I'll do a sentence dictation and then I'll do.

Our heart word or our high frequency word. I might do it before the sentence, if we're gonna use that word in the sentence. And I, I, okay. So I have this all, like, I have this all like, scripted out in both of, well actually all three of my books, but we segment the sound, oh, [00:22:00] the word is, today was, was Woo.

You know? And and the, and so we write lines. Everyone's writing with me. We do like these, I call 'em sound lines, these horizontal. Horizontal lines that repre represent each sound. And then I'm like, Hey, watch, what's the first sound? W and I, I write my W and then they write their W. Okay, what's next?

Sound? Okay. Watch carefully look at this spelling. I put the A, what's the last sound? Z. Okay. And put the s So they all do that with me. And then I'll say, which spelling is tricky or which spelling is unusual. They'll say the A, yeah, the A, it looks like wa. But we say was, and so we circle that A. So we're kind of, you know, you know, then we'll erase all the letters, but we'll leave those lines in circles.

And that circle is kind of like this little scaffold that helps 'em remember where that. Tricky sound is, or it's tricky spelling. We write them back in and then we'll just write it without any sound lines and just write it regular. And [00:23:00] then it takes like literally some student, oh, and I, oh, I forgot to clarify, like.

ZSI teach spells both and Z so that shouldn't be tricky at the beginning of the year. If they're like, oh, that one's tricky. I'll be like, well, we do know that S spells zz, but if you want help remembering that, then circle it. 'cause that it, it doesn't matter if you want help, it's just drawing attention.

Right. And then and then, you know the whole point, I lost my train of thought there. Oh. Some students will get that. They'll remember it, but other students won't. And so we can do that again. Or I can show on the card, remember the sounds and was, and I can point to the spellings. What yeah, what sound is a spelling?

Yeah, that's tricky. And then if there's, like you were talking about etymology if there's a reason for that spelling, and I feel like the students are ready to hear that. Then I can share that. Like when I taught them one ONE, I showed them the [00:24:00] word alone. And lonely, you know, what does alone mean?

Oh, you're all by yourself. There's only one of you, you know? And, and they thought that was really cool. And I, you know, I was like, oh, your parents won't even know this. You can go home and tell 'em. And then they're all excited. But I'm always like. I'm cautious not to tell too much because sometimes it can be overwhelming for a first grader, you know?

And, and a lot of times it's your more advanced students that really wanna hear that stuff because you know, so it just kind of depends what it is and kind of depends on my students and, and then all the time when I do dictation. At the end of dictation in phonics, we'll review a few of our high frequency words that I've already taught.

So, so we're really practicing spelling them, but that really helps you read them. If you could spell it, you can read it generally.

Shannon Betts: Crazy thing I learned this summer in a morphology class, that onion is spelled with the ON for that reason because it's [00:25:00] like one bulb as opposed to like garlic bulbs, which is like.

Lindsay Kemeny: I didn't know that. Oh my God, that's so it

Shannon Betts: like I was actually doing a tutoring lesson, like at someone's house, at their dining table. So I called out to the parent, can you get green? Me an onion and some garlic? That's how I introduced it to the student. Oh my gosh.

Mary Saghafi: I've definitely never heard that before.

But I'm gonna use that for sure too. I love beautiful tit.

Lindsay Kemeny: I know the little things are cool. Another one that's really fun, I just checked on etymology while we were talking. Sure. It wasn't right to like, and it's

Shannon Betts: right. It's right. So.

Lindsay Kemeny: Well, another one is the people, the word people has that o because of population populate to show that, you know, that's kind of fun.

And with my students, we'll always do like, like the spelling voice. Like I'm like, it looks like PP, and they just think it's so funny. And then, you know, anytime when I'm like, spell people and they'll be like, oppo or Manny, for many, they just like, it's just these little kind of things that will [00:26:00] help them remember with desk

Shannon Betts: day.

Yeah. Wednesday.

Lindsay Kemeny: Like we all do that. We all said we nest day, right? When we're writing Wednesday.

Shannon Betts: Yeah, for sure.

Lindsay Kemeny: Okay.

Shannon Betts: No, I think that's

Lindsay Kemeny: perfect. Yeah.

Shannon Betts: That's so cool. Well, I just wanted to circle back, like you told us r and then I'm like, I'm waiting for the other letters. Oh yeah. So you said R was or they maybe have to read the book to to know.

No, it's okay. I'm sure.

Lindsay Kemeny: Okay, so R is to reflect on your class data, right? And in the book I say let the needs of your students guide your instruction and how you structure your day O is optimize. Optimize your lessons by establishing consistent routines, a brisk instructional pace, and smooth classroom transitions.

So, you know, this is really like, I feel like this book is kind of the blend of what I have learned from Dr. Louisa Motes and. Dr. Anita Archer. Okay. And so you could see that in here with her [00:27:00] explicit instruction. And I feel like it's kinda like how everything melds together. And so, and, and they're both the ones who wrote, like Anita Archer wrote my Forward for seven My Moves.

And Louisa Moats wrote the Forward for Rock Your LIteracy Block So that's so cool 'cause they're my heroes. But that's, I would feel

Shannon Betts: you must feel so honored and humbled by that.

Mary Saghafi: I, well, and I totally agree that, that these two books sort of meld those ideas together. Yeah. Yes. And that's the bridge that we've been needing, so that's okay.

Yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah, because, and it's just, I think that's just something special, I guess, about like when I write, because. I am in the classroom and it's so different than writing about something you, you learned about or you know, and we need the expert voices, like the researchers and those experts. But I think the teacher voice is also really powerful to bring to the conversation.

Right? Because it is kind of like. Okay. This is the research. Okay. Here's what I do.

Shannon Betts: Like, that's why we're wanting to pick your brain. It's like, okay, tell us what this looks like on a Wednesday. Tell us what this looks like on a [00:28:00] Thursday.

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah, so anyways, optimize, and I just feel like. You know, even like, no matter how much time, like you could say, okay, I have 30 minutes for my phonics lesson.

But then think about everything that can eat away at that time. You know, announcements comes on, someone stops by your room with a, you know, with a, a note for someone. A couple kids are off. And you have to deal with them. A mosquito comes into the classroom and suddenly, ah, it's like a mess. You know, like you know, all the little things, your marker is dry.

You don't know where you put the word list that you're gonna have 'em read all those things. And suddenly our 30 minute lesson is 20 minutes. So this is really like, what, when I'm like, optimize, I really do like optimize every minute. And think about those transitions and routines. Sometimes we think.

Routines. The kids will be so bored. They are not, I promise you, if they're bored, it's usually pacing. It's usually a slow pace. But like

Shannon Betts: [00:29:00] they're comforted by routines.

Lindsay Kemeny: Yes. It's like they thrive, and especially when you have students that are anxious, you know? They, I feel like especially do so well with their routines.

They don't have to think about what are we gonna do next? Where am I supposed to be? What should I get out? They know exactly we're going from here and here, and as soon as I get to my desk, I'm getting out my whiteboard and I'm doing this, and, you know, all of that stuff. So that's really what o is all about.

And, and those transitions, can you tighten those transitions? You know, how long does it take to come in from recess? Can we save some minutes there? How long does it take to go from the rug to the desk? In the middle of the phonics?

Shannon Betts: I used to let my kids earn minutes for recess back, like I had a timer, and if they could beat the timer.

Lindsay Kemeny: Oh, that's cool.

Shannon Betts: In a, in a orderly way, you know? Course then they could earn extra, extra minutes for recess the next day.

Lindsay Kemeny: Yes. So practicing, you know, all those things that. Yeah, it's huge.

Shannon Betts: And we're talking to you in October, so I do wanna hear like, how, how long did it take for your kids to [00:30:00] like get it, like for, you know, 'cause we start the school year with rituals and routines, so I know always Is it, and sailing now in Oct early October.

Lindsay Kemeny: It's actually is really. Yeah, it's actually going really well. There's a few things, like sometimes when at centers, when we're going from one center to the other, is a time when some of them can lose, you know, lose a little time 'cause they're taking too long to switch to their other activity. F in like the biggest transition during our pH phonics lesson is I always start 'em at the rug because I just feel like.

Everyone is like huddled together and focuses better, and then when we go to do dictation, we move. And so that one can take some time, but they are doing so good. So they are probably my class last year it was like 30 seconds, like literally I time that did a video this year, I would say they're probably like 45 seconds right now.

But they're getting really good and like some of them like I really praise like, oh wow, you know, like. Oliver already has his whiteboard out and [00:31:00] he's ready for my word, you know? And so they're all, and I have these little boys in my class that are a little competitive, so they're all trying to kind of be the first ones there and ready, and they're quiet and it's, you know, it's good.

So it's fun.

Mary Saghafi: Yeah, I think that's great. And those little tidbits too. I remember early in my teaching career, I would love to just like take a peek in on a seasoned teacher's class just to watch their transitions or try to understand, you know, what does this look like in practice? If I could. See it in practice, it makes it so much easier for me to then be able to do it.

And then likewise, as I became more seasoned, two, I would have people come and watch me. Or if I was in a co-teaching situation, we would really kind of like bounce off of each other and, and make sure that we were holding each other accountable for those types of transitions. So I think that that is a really valuable piece because

Shannon Betts: I think so too, to like.

Show that the students are capable of that smooth of an orderly of a transition. Like even a group of six year olds, [00:32:00]

Lindsay Kemeny: like you have, yeah, they can do it. You can hold them to their high standard and they're so proud too. They're really proud. And when I can like, you know, of course, you know, compliment them, but wow, look at that.

That was amazing. I love how quiet that was. You know, all that kind of stuff.

Shannon Betts: I just thought that was very elusive. Like when I was struggling with classroom management. Yeah. And so I, I, I did have more lack standards 'cause I was just like, oh, they're kids. But yeah, when you realize that their learning is at stake, then, you know, that makes you hold them accountable, hold yourself accountable and really, you know, teach those Yeah.

Rituals, just like you would teach the subject matter.

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah. And it's just, and it's not like you know, it's not like mean, right? It's like, it's like fun and they're proud and I'm happy and I'm, I'm complimenting them and they feel successful and they're, you know, writing the words and reading the words, and they're building with confidence because they're successful at what they're doing.

So it's good.

Mary Saghafi: Awesome. All right. With dated breath, I wanna know what is letter C? Oh C

Lindsay Kemeny: is call? So this was a, it's like so [00:33:00] important. I separated it from the other things in O but it's call for frequent student responses. You know, Dr. Archer says if there's only one thing schools can do to improve literacy outcomes, this would be, it increase the opportunities.

To respond. So, and you see that you come into my classroom, I say something, they say something, I read something, they read something, I write something, they write something. You know, so there's like so many opportunities to respond. This like behavior issues go down and you teach them that you are expecting.

Everyone to respond. You're doing

Shannon Betts: unison. You're talking about unison responses, not just raise your hand. Okay.

Lindsay Kemeny: Right. Not just raise your hand. 'cause how many people are responding? One and it's usually like your most proficient in English and your high, you know, like high performing student. So Hermione Granger,

Mary Saghafi: obviously that's what I always called them.

Hermione Granger. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny: So when the answer is the short and the same is short and the same, they can do choral [00:34:00] responses. So you know what sound is sh bell, everyone you know, or do we use CK after a short valve or long bowel? Everyone, and you need, like, you need a a cue for when they respond. If the answer is longer or more varied, then we'll turn and talk.

So we'll turn and share with our partner and then we'll come back together and then I can call on somebody. But they all had a chance to talk. So like in writing, we do a ton of turn and talks. I mean, Lang, the language is the foundation of everything. So we turn, tell, tell your neighbor what you think our topic sentence should be.

Everyone shares and then we come back together and then I can call on somebody. So yeah,

Mary Saghafi: those are just perfect examples. I think that that's right and I think the call for frequent student responses is essential. Okay. Let us know about letter K.

Lindsay Kemeny: K is to keep your focus on [00:35:00] progress, not perfection. And when I say that, I mean both for your students and I also mean it for you as a teacher.

So. Like for your students, for example, let's say they bring you a piece of writing, and I'm not gonna expect perfection right away. I've gotta choose a couple things to work on. I can't just like red mark the whole thing or something. Right? And, and I'm, I'm making mental notes. Oh, we gotta work on segmenting blends or oh, you know, like, oh, we taught, I taught that high frequency word.

So we need to practice that. 'cause they, they should be able to spell that. Or, you know, spaces between words. Things are gonna come but. Work on, you know, focus on the progress. And then with, as teachers, I, we beat ourselves up, right? And, and we just think, oh my gosh, it's not like I have to be perfect.

Look, take it one step at a time and. You know, it's just like, [00:36:00] it can be overwhelming. I'm always like, baby steps, baby steps. Like you'll get there and nobody is perfect. And I feel like every year I get a little better. Like I make goals every year and there's something that I'm working on. Then when I have that down, then I add something else.

So yeah, it's just. And so I, so I told you Dr. Louisa Motes wrote my forward. She also came to my classroom. So in May it was in May, right, which may is like a crazy month. And she came and she was there the whole morning and until noon. So she saw my whole block and it was like, can you imagine?

Like, I was so nervous, like I couldn't sleep the day before. And then, oh my gosh, that's crazy. And then even afterwards, like I was just like replaying everything in my head and I'm like, oh my gosh, maybe I should have done this, or I should have said this, or I could have done this better. Right? It's like, it's like this whole perfection thing.

And then [00:37:00] she sent me just the nicest email, like this complimenting so many things and I was like, I need to not be so hard on myself. It's fine. So I think it's just a lesson for all of us. Like don't be hard on yourself and you know, I know it can be frustrating or if you feel like I felt guilty for things I did in the past, you know, all the things.

Just one step at a time. Focus on the progress.

Mary Saghafi: I think that's totally beautifully said. I think that's. Absolute perfection because I wish somebody would've given me the just the courage to give myself grace or just even just offered that. Because yeah, same thing where you, you're up all night and you're thinking, oh, I could have, should have.

Would have wanted to, yeah. All the things. But yeah, so I would love to hear a little bit about your personal story because you know, as a dyslexia advocate and as a tutor who specializes in this I feel like. I have been able to build up a lot of empathy. [00:38:00] I don't have a child who has dyslexia.

I am a parent. But going through that jourKemeny really brings you I think clarity on, on how brains are different and special and unique. And so I was wondering if you would be willing to share a little bit about you know, the process or what you've learned along the way.

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah. 'Cause I've learned so much through that process that even, like, I just had so many misconceptions and I, I remember earlier in my career, you know, even like when a child was struggling to learn to read, and this is like so embarrassing to say, but I remember thinking.

Oh, that's so sad. Their parent must not work with them, you know, which is just so you know so far from the truth, because with my own son, I worked with him more than anybody else, any of my other children, and he still struggled to read. So I just, you know, I didn't understand. I didn't understand really, is what it [00:39:00] came down to.

So he's my third child. Out of four, I have four that three of them learn to read really easily, and so. I was so confused when he was struggling. He was slow to develop speech when he, like, as a toddler, that is a sign of dyslexia. It's a huge myth of that. It's about visual, like seeing backwards.

It's about language processing. So, you know, that's where, you know, you might see it first, is that, oh, you know, they mispronounce a lot of words, or, you know, they're a little slow with their speech. I, but you know, it, it looks a little different in different. Students, but and he was struggling to learn his letter names and sounds.

And I remember in preschool being like, what in the world? Like, why is this taking so long? You know? And. In kindergarten, we found out he has a DHD, so he was diagnosed with that, but I, we still, I was still really confused about what was going on and why it was so, you know, slow. And I [00:40:00] hate that it took until he was in second grade when we finally did outside testing to figure out what, why he was struggling.

And that was, it was towards the end of the second grade year that he was diagnosed with dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia. And so reading disability writing disability, math, disability, in addition to his A DHD. And these like dyslexia is on a spectrum. So you could have a very mild case in your classroom.

You could have very severe, and the neuropsychologist told me he was very severe. He said, he's in the 1%. And I'm like, what does that mean? And the 1%, and he said, only 1% of the students I test every year are this severe. So. I just had to find out like, what do students with dyslexia need to learn to read?

What happens in the brain when you need to, you know, when you read, what does everyone need to learn to read? And it was just, it was just like this snowball effect because I just kept learning and growing and reading and becoming really angry when I found [00:41:00] out that a lot of the things I had been taught had not aligned with this, things that had been debunked.

I, in fact, I remember 'cause like I remember just a couple months after my son was diagnosed and I was in a parent support group and someone was asking about a, a program and another parent said, well, that's balanced literacy. So it's basically the worst thing for our kids. And I was like, what is she talking about?

Like she, that is the best way to teach reading like what you know. And it was really like this process to understand that a lot of what I learned with balance literacy, like three queuing. Yeah, three queuing is like the worst thing for these students. It's just, it's just teaching them to guess, you know, which I did it all the time and I'd be like, like, you know, so I was really angry.

Like, this is basically what I was doing anyway. So it was just, it was this process. But then what really like lit a fire under me was that my son was also diagnosed with depression [00:42:00] and his depression all centered around his struggles learning to read. So, I never like his, his third CRA year. Well, let me say, I, I got a tutor right away, someone who's familiar with dyslexia.

'cause I didn't know what to do, but it was very expensive so we could only do twice a week because that's all we could afford. And that's something I just, I regret because I wish we could have done every day right away. And, but I didn't know what to do and we didn't have the moKemeny for that. So, so his third grade year, 'cause he was still only getting twice a week.

We weren't seeing huge results. And his third grade year was just the worst for his depression. And like, honestly it was like chronic trauma for both of us. It was just night after night. He would sob, I had never heard him cry like this before, but third grade he really started comparing himself to others.

So he would scream that. [00:43:00] You know, he would scream, I wish I were dead, like over and over. And it was so, like, so, and I, I never know how much to share. It's because I don't wanna trigger anyone. So I will just say like he said and did things that year and like, I couldn't believe I had a 9-year-old son who was suicidal.

At nine years old, I just, and of course we did. We got professional help for him when, especially when things just got so bad and he just seemed to hit, hit rock, hit rock bottom. But I started working with him the end of third grade because it had been, I felt like I knew what to do. And as his reading improved, his self-esteem improved and out of everything that we did to help his depression, what helped him the most was the ability to read.

And I don't know if I would've believed that, if I hadn't experienced it myself, but I just, I saw firsthand how tightly connected [00:44:00] self-esteem and the ability to read. Are, and so like, that's why I am so passionate. That's why I write, that's why I share because I think we are changing lives and just the gift of literacy is just the greatest gift we can give these students.

Mary Saghafi: Thank you so much for sharing your story. It's, it is not an uncommon story, and that's like the most heartbreaking piece of it. Because I do deal with families who have these similar struggles, and as a teacher sit in the very beginning I knew that I couldn't reach all of my students and it was a very uncomfortable feeling.

When I first started working with a kiddo with dyslexia, I was just so confused, like, I'm doing all the things I'm supposed to do, how come it's not clicking? It's not working, right? Mm-hmm. And so I've been on that jourKemeny where it's very confusing, but I've also seen two sides of it. One [00:45:00] where the kiddo is just struggling and.

So heartbreaking. And you just see their self-esteem just tank. It's not acceptable. It's not. And no one goes into teaching hoping that they can just pass a kid along. Nobody does that. But when you don't have any resources at your disposal, you didn't know what you didn't know, you can, you know, only you know, kind of keep reaching out.

But as a parent, I have so much empathy because. My gosh, when, when your kid struggles, you are only as happy as your saddest child, which is such a strong statement. And so absolutely accurate. I never understood that you know, prior to going through struggles with my own kiddos, but it's true. I totally applaud you for digging so deep and absolutely will hand you the microphone any chance we can because your story is extremely powerful.

It is not uncommon, but tragic and preventable. [00:46:00]

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah. I mean, if I had been taught this, I mean, that's what makes me so angry. Like I just, like, and all of us teachers, like what, you know, I, I hope that now like new graduates are, you know, being taught things more aligned with research. I don't know. I don't think that's happening in all places.

So, you know, that just makes me angry about teacher preparation. And also to be honest. Professional development, like I'm glad we have this science of reading movement. I'm concerned 'cause there's also misconceptions with it. But just dyslexia in general. You know, I don't get any training about dyslexia as a teacher, so everything I've learned about dyslexia has been myself reaching out and finding things.

So why is that? Because it's the most commonly diagnosed learning disability, so. You know, why? Why, why aren't, you know, are school districts providing more training for us, specifically on reading disabilities? Yeah.

Mary Saghafi: Yeah. Yeah. And, and the more you get into parent groups that you know, are trying [00:47:00] to create change, I think that there has been a significant amount of change relative to, you know, 20 years ago.

In the last five years I've seen a lot more change, specifically, like throughout the country. And I do think that people like yourself who are writing these. Really great professional development books that are also easy to read, easy to pick up, easy to digest because teachers just don't have a lot of time to be able to consume, especially during the school year.

So I really appreciate that platform that you are sharing. And also I'm grateful that you're the resource that your son needed to be able to learn to read. That's incredible. Thank you and

Shannon Betts: you're really creating, even though I, I hate that you and your son had to go through especially those really painful, hard years.

Mm-hmm. But. Like I'm a kind of a Pollyanna person and like making, you know, lemonade out of lemon. Yeah. But I mean, it did transform [00:48:00] your teaching of the last few years of your students. Yeah. And then your current students and all of your future students. Yeah. And then with this platform that you're sharing, you're influencing other teachers and other students and so.

I hope that your son can even realize the power of that too. That I tell him that struggles have helped other people actually. Yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny: I, and I, I'm always like, oh, it's because of you. It's because of you that I'm here. It's because of you that I'm, you know, speaking at this conference. It's because of you.

And now, you know, he's 15. So it's been you know, he's, it's, it's not over. He can read, we still have struggles, you know, with, you know. Making sure teachers provide accommodations and all the things in high school. But yeah, Shannon, you're exactly right, like that is definitely the silver lining. And a lot of times when I give like a professional development, like something, I usually start by just like acknowledging him because I'm just, I'm so grateful.

Like so that sounds like I never would've wished this upon him, [00:49:00] but I'm really grateful that it helped me kind of open my eyes and head down this path. And sometimes it's scary 'cause I'm like, where would I be if I hadn't I, you know, I hope I still would've come to this information, but I don't know. So,

Mary Saghafi: yeah, no, definitely.

I think it the, the other like silver lining piece I think for a, a person with dyslexia or a family who has this is that when children tend to struggle when they're younger, they are then provided with a lot of help and support and a family unit that really, you know, shows them, Hey, we're part of your team and you're not in this alone.

It creates this sense of grit and resilience that. Serve some very well later in life. And I say that with the caveat that having that strong supportive family system is so essential. Having great communication with the teachers at school and helping other people to understand and then also helping the students self-reflect and understand how their [00:50:00] own thinking you know, may be better suited with different.

Things and helping them to advocate for themselves. It's beautiful when it actually kind of turns and works out. So starting early, you know, giving the best tier one instruction that we can and then finding some really great streamlines for intervention. Fantastic.

Lindsay Kemeny: Yeah. Yeah,

Mary Saghafi: exactly. Well, thank you so very much for sharing with us today.

I think that all of our listeners can really appreciate the tips that you have shared. We'll make sure that we link your book in our show notes and some more information and some of the information that we talked about today. So thanks for joining us. It's so lovely to see you. Thanks you guys.

Thanks for having me. It was fun.

Shannon Betts: I know we could have talked to you for hours. Thank you so much, Lindsay. Bye.