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Reading Teachers Lounge
Reading Teachers Lounge
July 2025 Bonus Episode
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Subscribe and receive ad-free content and exclusive bonus episodes!In this July 2025 Bonus episode of the podcast, Shannon and Mary explore Hugh Catts's article from American Educator about rethinking how to promote reading comprehension. In this episode, we break down Hugh Katz’s summary from research and trends in the field. We chat about how he shows that comprehension depends on interconnected knowledge and skills. We also touch on some additional points in Catts's article: how traditional skills-based instruction falls short and how better-aligned assessments can transform comprehension outcomes. Listen to learn why background knowledge, academic language, and content-rich curricula are essential for student success.
Catts, Hugh W. "Rethinking How to Promote Reading Comprehension." American Educator, February 2015.
LINKS TO THE RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE ARTICLE:
- Open Source link to: Catts, Hugh W. "Rethinking How to Promote Reading Comprehension." American Educator, February 2015.
- RISE: Readiness through Integrative Science and Engineering
- Disciplinary Literacy
- Wit & Wisdom curriculum
- CKLA curriculum
- Model of Reading Engagement
- Date Your Data episode from Season 6
- Reading Universe
- Read Works
- LEAP 2025 Humanities: link 1
- LEAP 2025 Humanities: link 2
Welcome to the Reading Teachers Lounge. We're recording our July bonus episode for all our subscribers and we appreciate you guys listening. And for the summer we decided to do something a little different. For these episodes, instead of just talking about our tutoring practice, we wanted to break down some science of reading articles with you. So last month I thought that one was really interesting it was about translating research into practice and I really liked the one we chose this month as well. It's called Rethinking how to Promote Reading Comprehension by Hugh Katz. Did you see Hugh Katz in his bio is affiliated with FCRR. I did not.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So look at the bottom of um, page 27. It's like behind the cover oh yes, fantastic. Hugh katz is a professor in the florida state university school of communication, science and disorders and is affiliated with florida center for reading research. I'm like, all right, he might have to go on our bucket list, um of guests because I really liked what he had to say.
Speaker 1:I thought the beginning and the ending of the article were really fun and that he was like bringing it in real life, where he was at a a reading conference and reflecting on the work that he had done with a committee. Um, was it a committee? A research panel or something like that it was I think it was a research panel.
Speaker 2:They were kind of like reflecting on what they had come for the reading for understanding initiative yeah, and so then they they were.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they had gotten they had gotten some funding um federal funding, uh-huh for educational sciences, um and but I think that this whole, oh, it says I see it, it says the reading for understanding initiative was intended to jumpstart instruction and reading comprehension and significantly improve reading achievement on state and national assessments. And so he starts the article in his article, kind of reflecting on this moment of time of that work that they had done and what they had learned about reading comprehension so far which started um.
Speaker 2:at least, this conference that he's referencing was 10 years ago, in february 2015, so 10 years later, kind of like, where are we now? Um which which I found really fascinating too, and he said that um, the preliminary results that the panel found were disappointing as far as comprehension scores for students.
Speaker 1:The reported studies found that students were receiving a variety of comprehension interventions and they made gains on the tests related to the interventions On the tests related to the interventions, but then when they were tested on a separate assessment, they showed limited or no significant gains to standardized measures of reading comprehension. And he says later like he thinks that they were. The problem with that is that their work was the field's general approach to reading comprehension was short-sighted, in his opinion, and that the field was treating reading comprehension as if it was a single construct that could be measured with just one test.
Speaker 1:And he goes on to this article and saying reading comprehension is like one of the most complex things readers do and it's multidimensional.
Speaker 2:Yep, relying on lots of other factors, including experience that the child already has prior to reading the test.
Speaker 1:And so he said that, like that, we had been treating comprehension like a skill, like like a skill like swimming, and so, okay, we teach a kid how to swim and then they can swim in an ocean, they can swim in a pool, they can swim in a lake, but it's a lot more complicated than that.
Speaker 2:I love this example. I'm going to go into the example that he provided a study that was done for college students about reading comprehension.
Speaker 1:Oh the one where it's like that paragraph and you have to read it and then you're not sure what it means.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was really really interesting you're not sure what it means. Yes, that was really really interesting, really helpful, so I'll I'll read it, um, and so we can kind of like have our listeners sort of understand. Um, you know why it's so important to be specific? And, uh, let let's go through it first. Um, so it was a psychology class um study containing this passage, and it was designed to be ambiguous and read aloud to college students and they were asked to recall as much as they could. So here's the study.
Speaker 2:The procedure was actually quite simple. First you arrange things into different groups. Of course, one pile may be sufficient, depending on how much there is to do. If you have to go somewhere else due to lack of facilities, that is the next step. Otherwise, you are pretty well set.
Speaker 2:It is important not to overdo things, that is, it is better to do too few things at once than too many. In the short run, this may not seem important, but complications can easily arise. A mistake can be expensive as well. At first, the whole procedure will seem complicated. Soon, however, it will become just another facet of life. It is difficult to foresee any end to the necessity for this task in the immediate future, but then one can never tell for this task in the immediate future, but then one can never tell. After the procedure is completed, one arranges the materials into different groups again. Then they can be put into their appropriate places. Eventually they will be used once more, and the whole cycle will have to be repeated. However, that is part of life. When you read this, what were you imagining that they were talking about?
Speaker 1:I really didn't know. I was thinking it was like a work procedure maybe or something like that.
Speaker 2:I thought it was like how complex things could be when you were reading Like okay, I wasn't quite sure because I knew you'd have to reread it again. I wasn't sure, but in the end if you would have told the students that the topic of this was how to do laundry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, then it's very obvious, it's very obvious, yes, and it's wild.
Speaker 2:And so if you don't give the why, which is something that we've definitely been talking about this season and in previous seasons, being explicit as possible, what is important in this passage? What should you pay attention to? What are the cues? You don't have that, then you're going to miss the full idea yeah, I think what that shows.
Speaker 1:Um, he goes into the next paragraph and he says that, not, he explains actually what knowledge does for comprehension. And because we didn't know what that passage was about and we didn't have a purpose for reading it, we could decode the words and we could sort of understand the flow of the sentences, but we didn't grasp the full understanding because we weren't able to link old understanding to new understanding with the passage um, because we couldn't activate our background knowledge. And so that's what that he says, that's what knowledge does for corporations, that provides that framework to organize incoming information and guide as we read through a text. And so then when I reread after I found out it was about laundry, I reread it and I'm like, oh, piles, oh, okay, next step, okay, A mistake would be expensive, the whole procedure could seem complicated, but then it'll be just another facet of life.
Speaker 1:Yep, laundry is just another facet of life. So then I was really connecting with the passage once I knew the topic. But that one all had like the word this and this procedure and you didn't have the antecedent, you didn't know what they were referring to, the procedure they were referring to.
Speaker 2:Ambiguous, connected text. You know I yeah, I really liked that.
Speaker 2:It also really shows that, while the act of reading, the act of decoding is really critical having phonemic awareness, being able to do those foundational skills. But if you don't have the knowledge connected to what that means, the whole point is missed. So it cannot be taught in just a silo or just as one of the five pillars, while the five pillars are really important and each of those pieces of learning to read and the instructional practices of phonemic awareness and phonics fluency, vocabulary we saw that in the last we talked about that last month too, in that last passage that we read about I mean that last research article, because the National Reading Panel didn't differentiate.
Speaker 1:Like they put all those pillars as like equal heights and equal, you know, equal size, but really they're measuring different things and so it's you can't really compare them as equally. And so what Hugh Katz is saying in this article is that comprehension cannot be reduced to a single notion because it's not a single ability. Be reduced to a single notion because it's not a single ability, it's not a single pillar, and comprehension is a combination of um, three of three factors the reader, the text and the activity of the reader. Yeah, and all of those things are like a dynamic um, interactions and synapses having it in the brain as the student is reading, and, and so it makes sense that like something as complicated as that just can't be taught. It's like, oh, main idea lesson. Okay, now we've got it, you know.
Speaker 2:Right, and I I also really like thinking of it, you know, maybe even as like a three, three-legged stool, because you have to have like the seat. Would be like background knowledge and that requires a lot of depth and breadth. But then there are these other pillars that are with it too, like the, the big foundation of reading skills, making sure that there's the foundation for comprehension and then also understanding, knowledge acquisition, so that that's a big piece. And then the other final piece is you can only do this with high quality reading instruction, so you can't let any of those legs kind of falter, because it's such an interconnected skill and he doesn't leave us with that, like I mean, he, he, he goes on.
Speaker 1:I thought it was interesting you talk about I want to go to page 30 real quick before we move on to the next section but he said that like knowledge, knowledge is, is, is, is, um makes the most of a working memory, allows us to make the most of organ memory. So we've talked so much about executive functioning and working memory, um over the years, and so I thought that was really interesting, because if you have knowledge in the long-term memory, then that's going to place a smaller burden on your short-term memory and so then you can actually attune more into paying attention to that present passage that you're reading and then, like, pull from that long-term knowledge. So I thought that was really cool.
Speaker 2:That's what allows the juggling to sort of take place within your mind. And I think, when you think of working memory, it's very complicated, right, but we can only hold and access so much information at a time. You can only have that many browser tabs open in your brain, which is usually around seven different things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I don't have a lot of background knowledge about, like organic chemistry. So if I'm reading a passage about organic chemistry I have no long-term knowledge to pull up from, so I'm going to have a difficult time with that passage. I'm going to have to read a lot of articles to build up my long-term memory knowledge to then every time I understand that article subsequently I will understand it better and better and better based on the other facts that I know about organic chemistry. But if I'm just reading one article, I'm not going to become an expert on organic chemistry.
Speaker 2:Right, well, and then this leads to the next piece, which I think is also interesting. So for many years, educators have been taught to activate background knowledge by using, you know, the pre-reading discussions and concept maps.
Speaker 1:KWL charts.
Speaker 2:And anticipation guides and all of those things which are valuable and helpful, as long as you have something to draw from.
Speaker 1:Right, if they have the knowledge it helps. But he says if they don't have the knowledge it actually hurts.
Speaker 2:Exactly If children have inaccurate information and then it's activated, and it's activated inaccurately or they make these false assumptions.
Speaker 1:Right, they think a dolphin is a fish and not a mammal or something, then they're going to misunderstand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, detrimental to their comprehension ability. So you don't want to just activate as a component of instruction, you actually want to build knowledge. And I think that those have been, you know, wrongfully interchanged for instructional practices. And again, this is not, you know, it's an inaccuracy that's been pushed as an instructional practice.
Speaker 1:Well, he was really honest. I mean, he said somewhere along the line, educators and researchers, myself included, got distracted and failed to pay attention to the importance of knowledge. Perhaps it was a shift in focus to bond, not models of reading, or maybe it's just that knowledge took too much time to teach and it made more sense to focus on skills that we can talk quickly and apply to cross topics topics because the knowledge rich curriculum you're talking about years of building that knowledge for students and that's not something that can be like implemented as a quick initiative or intervention, and that's isolated.
Speaker 2:That's what I was going to say. Our students come in with a variety of background, knowledge, skills, um, and so it's not an equal playing field for everyone either.
Speaker 1:So and the curriculum resources vary and things like that.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think that the solution and this is this like false dichotomy, which I'm really happy that he pointed out was that you know, we often say middle of third grade you are learning to read, and then you're reading to learn, and that cannot actually be an all of a sudden shift.
Speaker 2:They need to be reading to learn from the beginning All the way? Yes, exactly Because that is the purpose, is that usually you're reading a text to gain knowledge of something, and that's a common agreement, but if you're just isolating those skills and reading um one short passage, uh, that's then not connected to any other background knowledge. And his example is first, you go from reading ruby bridges to um reading get what. The example is?
Speaker 1:um oh yeah, I mean, it was just some random right, just another volcanoes no, yeah, it was volcanoes and rosa parks and those weren't connected.
Speaker 1:Yep, but it would make more sense to have reading materials that are arranged in topic in a logical and sequential manner. Yeah, and that would form an integrated, content-rich curriculum, and this way knowledge is acquired and accumulated over time. So that's what he's suggesting as one of the implications for instruction that should be considered when strengthening comprehension for students, that it's not going to happen in one lesson. You have to look at the curriculum as a whole and the resources that you're building, that you're using as a whole. And he's like you're not ignoring the foundational skills you're still. But he said that knowledge curriculum is also a place where you can be building the vocabulary and all the things within that.
Speaker 1:So you can yeah, so he said, in an integrated literacy knowledge building curriculum, there should be a strong focus on teaching fundamental reading skills, depending on the grade and specific skills taught. Instruction and decoding, spelling and fluency could comprise its own unit or or could be blended in with discussion and activities designed to acquire and build content knowledge.
Speaker 2:So I think that's really cool student engagement with learning fostered by instructional, culturally responsive instruction, and so what that means is connecting their new knowledge with things that are relevant within the culture or the community, concerning people and places and objects that students are interacting with on a daily basis, and I think he references one program too.
Speaker 1:I'm going to I made a note to look at that one yeah, the readiness or integrative science and engineering. I'm going to research that. I haven't heard of that one before I didn't either, actually and so I want to know more about that. If that's something I could use in my tutoring practice, because you know, we're always looking for culturally responsive resources for our diverse students.
Speaker 1:He gives a couple other implications for instruction suggestions. I really liked when he brought up the academic language and grammar learning opportunities. I thought that was fascinating how he was showing an example of a science text and how important it is to understand, like recognizing, like the connecting of clauses and things like that and the references. I think that's sort of like text cohesion, like Tim Shanahan was talking about, and the social studies texts were great for that too. So those are really rich opportunities to develop that text cohesion and having students be able to connect the ideas, maybe with only one word, like, such as the word however in there, for example.
Speaker 2:The one that I can pull up right now is, for example, consider this text Asthma is a disorder in which respiratory passages narrow significantly as a result of an allergen. This narrowing, so using that phrase, this narrowing, it actually creates an abstract noun.
Speaker 1:Of like a summary of the whole previous sentence.
Speaker 2:Exactly so we're supposed to remember that as readers. Right, and the narrowing, like wait, hold on what's narrowing? Is there a shape involved? What shape are we talking about? And you know, if you don't know, what a respiratory passage actually represents. So there's a lot of connected texts. So I really like being the whole follow.
Speaker 1:If you don't understand that one little phrase, this narrowing, and then it refers back to the previous sentence, then all of the subsequent sentences, it's going to be lost. The comprehension is going to be lost, there's going to be a lot of confusion.
Speaker 2:Right, so I thought that that was really great. So he he calls for using explicit instruction when you're talking about this, especially with academic tests texts, um informational texts yeah, and then.
Speaker 1:And then he references something I wrote down as possible topic for next season um, because he mentions, at the bottom of page 31 um disciplinary literacy. And so he says that's the knowledge of how disciplinary text works and they should be a part of instruction in the elementary grades. Yes, so I want to know more about that so he's describing how, like science, texts organize information, and that's like a certain sort of genre, almost. I think that's what I was understanding from that.
Speaker 2:That's what I was kind of getting from the gist of this too, and how comprehension is very different than reading, you know, a fiction text text.
Speaker 1:Oh, or he says if we read a like a social studies um, historical figures diary entry, that that's gonna work, that's gonna have a different understanding of the text structure and maybe, you know, can we take all of those facts or we're gonna have to recognize someone's opinion, and so I want to explore more of what that term disciplinary literacy means. I'm gonna make a note to put it in the show notes too, but also I think I think we're going to develop, you know, even if if I just read one source, that won't mean we understand it. So I think we want to learn more about it later and maybe talk about it in a future season.
Speaker 2:What I can hear our listeners kind of shouting into the void is okay, but those that's not what I'm required to teach. I don't have those resources available to me, um. And so then he talks about what these integrated content rich curricula are, and some examples he gives are the CKLA, the core, knowledge, language arts, um, and also wit and wisdom are are curriculums that are used widely right now in many local areas. But I think that the key component to that is that they are carefully curated texts that are closely related to thematic topics, topics and the high quality content and high quality texts that are paired with it. That's that's a tricky ask for teachers to get. So if you don't have access to this and your curriculum is sort of still teaching and within isolation, how can you maybe curate some things for yourself? How can you build this up?
Speaker 1:so yeah, that's the call to action I think the call to action, too, is just to not teach these skills in isolation, you know, to not just teach a lesson on cause and effect and think and or realize that if you do a a lesson on cause and effect, they might get better at cause and effect on what you've given them that day, but is it really going to improve their comprehension over time?
Speaker 1:So he wants us, as teachers, to look at our comprehension instruction as like a big picture and see, you know, it needs tasks that we're asking of students and showing the students that comprehension is fluid across those things that they might not have.
Speaker 1:They might think they're a great reader and then all of a sudden, if they read that organic chemistry passage, they might be like, wait, am I a good reader, you know. So we understand as adults that, like, our comprehension might not be the same across texts, but we can, you know, help the students understand that and realize that like, oh, if I'm reading a text that I have less background knowledge on, then I need to employ more comprehension strategies, and here are some of those strategies that you could try. So we just sort of have to have the own understanding as teachers and then help the students understand that comprehension is complicated and requires a lot of things, and so that they're not seeing it as like oh, this random cause and effect lesson, this random main idea lesson, this random summary lesson. What do they have to do? They don't have to do anything with each other.
Speaker 2:No, actually they do right and using and choosing which strategy will help you within the moment of the text that you are connecting with, because your brain is going to connect in a different way than a different student next to you, likely, um. Well then, this brings us to the assessment and comprehension pieces including the standardized measures of comprehension.
Speaker 2:So these. What's kind of unique about this is that students were building upon one solid topic rather than just having text passages from a whole book. And I know we've talked about this many times this season and how surprising it is that there are students graduating high school who have not actually read an entire book. It's kind of shocking. But the challenge with assessment I found this to be really surprising and I would love to know a little bit more, especially in light of our struggling readers.
Speaker 2:So the first one was that they looked at a study and they found a median correlation of 0.54. And if you're not, you know well-versed in this. What that means is if you scored a one in correlation scores, that means that one test that you compared another test to would have 100% agreement, and so they had four separate tests. A zero on that scale would score. They had no agreement at all. So we're right in that 50% margin and what that means is that those different tests are actually giving different answers. Now we also have to say that some of these tests had different formats as well.
Speaker 1:They've described a closed test text test Just fill in the blank with missing words, and then another one would be was like open-ended or multiple choice questions. So yeah, that would require like a different kind of. That says that those formats place different demands on reading related processes, such as word reading, language ability and working memory. So if a student has different strengths and weaknesses in those areas, they might show different results. But also I think it does show that like a lot of times those assessments are assessments of background knowledge. Like I've told you that one third grade test that I was giving like almost two decades ago had a passage about downhill skiing on the state test and my kids were like, huh, you know.
Speaker 1:Like we never get snow here, and even if we get snow, we're not in the mountains, we're in the foothills of the mountains. So they weren't doing any downhill skiing unless they were extremely privileged students, and so the everyday Georgian student is not going to understand or have much background knowledge on downhill skiing, and so that that passage wasn't an accurate assessment of their comprehension abilities. It was more an assessment of their knowledge.
Speaker 2:So contributing to that is something that I find really I'm not sure what the word is. My main word is scary, but I don't want to say absolutely scary. But when they looked at these tests again and they identified the 10% of the students who scored it within the 10%, the bottom of the test, they were not consistent. So only 43% chance of another test would also identify the same child. So that means if you were testing a child, they might not be identified as a struggling reader. So what does that mean for our students that also may be looking to qualify for a 504 or maybe even an IEP program that will meet their specific needs? Well, if we're not testing what the skill actually is, we're just testing their background knowledge. That's not helpful. That's not helpful. And what I often see too is when I'm writing IEP goals, we'll do skills within isolation. So the isolation. You know, a student may be working on inferential questions While, according to this research, that is not helpful for a student who is struggling with comprehension.
Speaker 1:Well, because they might be very good at inferences on topics that they have good background knowledge on and they might still do poorly on inferences on a topic if it's a passage about something that they don't have background knowledge on.
Speaker 1:He says that the field really needs to improve.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is not within our realm of control, but the whole field needs to um, have a better fit, um with um knowledge and comprehension and what's assessed, um. So he says, offer a better match. The assessment should be a better match between the instruction and assessment. Don't just I'm literally quoting from the passage so don't just test the skills and strategies that have been taught, test the specific content area, topics that have been taught. So, if they're using the wit and wisdom curriculum, have some separate passages not that are, you know, like cold reads or something, but have it related to the content knowledge that they had learned through the wind and wisdom curriculum to level the playing field, and then you're actually assessing comprehension of those passages instead of background knowledge. So, and that's like I said, that's not something we can control, but he was talking about some different changes in assessments that were happening in Louisiana and some other states where they were trying to do a better match of like what's in the curriculum and then having that match the assessments.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Louisiana began a multi-year process to offer a humanities assessment as an alternative to its ELA and social studies state assessments. So with this they also identified that there are some really key things that have to happen in developing this, and the first one is designing an assessment that keeps with current research on literacy development. So I check, I really like that. The other is professional development on how to use the results and inform teaching.
Speaker 1:So it has to be specific professional development. To then know how to date your data to reference our whole episode. Yes.
Speaker 2:And then I love this part too give time and appropriately allocate and compensate teachers for learning collaboratively as they adjust to a new assessment. So that part I think cannot be overstated. But then the second one goes hand in hand.
Speaker 1:Then get feedback on the curriculum and assessment from the teachers, yeah, to give them a voice, to give them feedback, feedback.
Speaker 1:and then I really liked this last one the best I think, with the lower stakes tied to the assessment results, so the teachers are not afraid to be innovative. Yeah, I just really appreciate. That shows that, um, this author, hugh katz, really does understand teachers in the field and he's not just in his office, you know, or behind his podium, you know, just sort of preaching about the field, but he actually understands what it's like for teachers and he's seen in that, in that own initiative that they were working on, that a major roadblock to teacher uptake, uptake of new practices is the accountability infrastructure or perform movements.
Speaker 1:The more test scores matter, the less a likelihood that teachers will adopt novel teaching practices, and we felt that in the field so many times where we've had things come down the pipeline and have been given non-negotiables and been told to try new things, and the more punitive they are, um the more reluctant we are the more resistance we get fearful, we're not as willing to make changes. We're so focused on our own feelings sometimes that we're not paying as much attention to how the students are receiving it and how much learning they're actually acquiring it. Just those emotions kind of um everything.
Speaker 2:So yeah, he ends on kind of a positive note, though, and he says that you know that Louisiana's efforts leave him hopeful that other states and districts will also consider how to align with what is taught. And then, you know, the other piece that was kind of interesting was that the Louisiana project really got interrupted due to the pandemic, and so there's a lot of catch up. So there's not a whole lot of evidence yet as to how that rollout has really, you know, come to light, but we did speak with the Reading Universe people who, uh, remind, oh gosh, my brain, um butler butler yes, yeah, yes, and, and she worked in mississippi but
Speaker 1:oh man, sorry bonus, but she introduced, like like I met her through my brother because he works in education in Louisiana and so he was kind of talking to them in a neighboring state about what they could do.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that reminder. I knew that Louisiana was connected and then I also knew that Mississippi was there, because Mississippi has done a lot of work with dyslexia as well.
Speaker 1:But that did make me think that there's a lot going on in the deep south of trying to make some changes to curriculum and improvement of the vocabulary and decoding work I'm doing within that background knowledge, maybe even across topics like ReadWorks, has, you know, multiple passages about the same topic which I could use, and I don't know if I'll ever be a classroom teacher again, but if I was, I mean I definitely would kind of toss my cause and effect I mean idea lessons and things like that and think of how I can teach more fluid comprehension strategies and show students how all these things are connected. Have them look over a passage, identify the text and the purpose for the reading and what strategies they might need to use to understand that text, so that the students are taking more ownership of that comprehending work and that it I mean really then it's differentiated comprehension instruction, I guess, because it's looking different across every single student yeah, and that's what my biggest takeaway was too.
Speaker 2:In addition, uh, I want to look a little bit more at the assessments that are given um, for you know, looking at struggling readers, and then, additionally, um, um. Additionally, I would also want to, you know, strengthen the nonfiction reading and see how to better utilize those like tier two vocabulary words and see how I can make connections, create those connections too, because not only do we need to strengthen comprehension, but also there's a lot of background knowledge that gets built at home that teachers are not often able to share with parents, and so I like to create that bridge a little bit about what the expectations are for this grade level and what the students should be working at, and how can you maybe build that into your night. You know, nightly conversations during dinner or something like that I really like going to these sources.
Speaker 1:So, um, maybe we'll do this in the future, um, for some of our bonus episodes, or regular episodes or patreon episodes. I'm not sure, but I do like digging into these articles and reading from the sources of the researchers me too because then I feel like I feel like I'm really doing science of reading. I mean, not that I'm a reading researcher, but I'm going to the source and not just having someone digest it for me.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, and hopefully we can inspire teachers to go to sources too and not be too intimidated to read the research, because this was a really accessible paper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and in the show notes it'll be an open source link to this article, so it's not behind a paywall or anything. If anytime you want to find a research article maybe that's referenced in a bibliography or something just find the title or the authors of that you know and then type in open source when you do the Google search and that will show you where it might be posted not behind a paywall.
Speaker 2:I would also encourage some of our listeners. If you come across a topic that you would like us to you know, dig deep into, please feel free to reach out and email us at readingteachersloungegmailcom or team at readingteacherslounge. Yeah, All right, so I guess until next time.
Speaker 1:Right, Until next time. I've got lots of stuff to put in the show notes.
Speaker 2:Sounds great. Bye.